FRAN KELLY, PRESENTER: Chris Bowen is the Shadow Treasurer. Chris Bowen, welcome back to breakfast.

CHRIS BOWEN, SHADOW TREASURER: Good morning Fran, good to be with you.

KELLY: Newspoll has Labor rocketing ahead of the Coalition. You've streaked to a 12 point lead after preferences. Bill Shorten is now the preferred Prime Minister for the first time ever, I suspect? Or certainly first time in a long time. How much store do you put in this though? Would you expect anything less, really, after the week the Liberals have just had?

BOWEN: Well Fran we don't take anything for granted. We know we have to earn the votes of every single Australian that we are seeking at the election, and there should be an election very soon. That is the ultimate answer to this chaos and dysfunction that we've seen. But last week, as some of your listeners have said on the text line, they saw a very good look at the Abbott/Turnbull/Morrison Government. What we are really seeing is five years of policy chaos, five years of dysfunction, and it has a real cost. I mean for example Fran, what is Australia's energy policy? When I talk to business big or small they say the biggest issue facing them is their rising energy prices. Households are no different. We have had a lack of energy -

KELLY: Well Scott Morrison has appointed a Minister for getting energy prices down. Isn't that what they want?

BOWEN: A Minister who was a key architect in the wrecking of the NEG. Which everybody said was the best chance of a bipartisan sensible policy going forward. And he's rewarded somebody who undermined and wrecked the NEG. So I think it will be a long time before we will see energy policy out of this Government. In fact senior ministers have been quoted off the record saying 'it's too hard for us, too hard for the Liberal Party because of our base, we will have to leave that to Labor to fix' which I think is a damning indictment on the chaos and dysfunction at the heart of the Abbott/Turnbull/Morrison Government.

KELLY: The Labor Opposition lost no time in painting this Scott Morrison Government as more of the same given he was Treasurer, but Josh Frydenberg has been sworn in as the Treasurer. He's part of what they're calling the 'new generation' of Liberal front benchers. That's probably fair enough. He's not from the hard right of the party, would you expect economic policy to be different with Josh Frydenberg as Treasurer?

BOWEN: Well Fran, Josh is the third Treasurer I've shadowed now, so I think that underlines some of the dysfunction we've seen over the five years. We've had five years of stability on our side under Bill's leadership. As I said, Josh is now, and I congratulate him on his appointment, but this is the third guy I've faced as Treasurer. The end result of all that chaos last week is that they promoted to the Prime Ministership a man who was the architect of the key policies of the Turnbull Government. Now the Government wasn't unpopular because of Malcolm Turnbull's personality, the Government was unpopular because they have the wrong answers for Australia's future.

Scott Morrison as Treasurer championed the $80 billion corporate tax cut, sat by as wages were cut through the penalty rate cuts, wages growth is at record lows, said no to the Royal Commission and said it was a populist whinge which has been perhaps his worst policy failure of all. And now he's the Prime Minister of the country and the Liberal Party expects a pat on the back. Well we will remain focused on policy, we believe that we can take a very comprehensive, and we have taken, a very comprehensive approach. We will take those policies to the next election as the Liberal Party just engages in their seemingly constant internecine warfare.

KELLY: I'll come to your policy positions in a moment, but just before this change of leadership, Scott Morrison, the Treasurer you're talking about there now Prime Minister, he dumped those corporate tax cuts for big business. They dumped that. Let's have a listen to Prime Minister Scott Morrison.

(Audio)

SCOTT MORRISON, PRIME MINISTER: But we will be reforming a new, exciting tax policy for small and medium sized businesses. They're the engine room of growth and I know that this team can deliver the economy we need, the safety we need, and the togetherness we very much need.

KELLY: That's the new Prime Minister Scott Morrison and this quote "new and exciting policy" he mentioned there is expected to be a fast tracking of the tax cut for smaller businesses for companies with turnovers of up to $50 million from 27.5 per cent to 25 per cent. Now Labor still hasn't even backed it for 27.5 per cent has it? I mean is this going to be popular? Will you oppose this?

BOWEN: Well Fran we have said that tax cuts that are implemented that we would back and thats been our policy, the 27.5% tax rate to correct you, we have

KELLY: I beg your pardon. So will you support it, moving it down to 25%?

BOWEN: Well Fran hang on a second, with respect I mean asking me to respond to a thought bubble from the new Prime Minister. I mean Liberal party policy changes between 10am and 11am so Im not going to respond to every thought bubble that we get. If theyve got a policy, tell us what it is. We have led the policy debate for five years now. They have engaged in internecine warfare. They can every so often change Prime Ministers but at their heart their policy priorities remain the same and we are providing a real alternative.

KELLY: Will you be emboldened in the degree of the alternative policy you present now to the people in the lead up to the election given the size of the gap in the polls? Is that going to give you more confidence to be more ambitious in your tax reform policy for example?

BOWEN: Well Fran I think in fairness we have taken the most ambitious policy agenda of any Opposition in 25 years already. I mean we are doing the hard things, we are taking the things that have been in the too hard basket for 40 years and put them on the to do list: Negative gearing reform, dividend invitation refundability reform, family trusts which all the Liberal Treasures since 1980 have wanted to reform but havent been able to. We have taken those things on already so I think with respect we already have an ambitious policy agenda. We do these things not because they are politically convenient or easy because I assure you they are not. We do them because they are absolutely vital to get the budget back on better footing, a more sustainable budget surplus and also to fund important initiatives in health and education and other important priorities for the country.

KELLY: You are listening to RN Breakfast, our guest is the Shadow Treasurer Chris Bowen. There has been a period of calm and stability within Labor as well but its a bit rich isnt it? Labor talking about the Liberals for this internecine warfare when Labor affectively rewrote the rules when it came to revolving doors for leaders, certainly removing them before they had completed their term. I think even you would concede that you helped create an environment where this is now, seems to be, the way we can behave. Im just wondering from that perspective why you think there should be an election soon because Kevin Rudd when he replaced Julia Gillard didnt rush to an election. Julia Gillard when she replaced Kevin Rudd didnt rush to an election. Why should Scott Morrison?

BOWEN: Well Fran Id make two points. Firstly, weve learnt our lessons. Yes, we got somethings wrong but we learned our lessons. Weve had that five years of stability in leadership and policy. We learned that lesson, the Liberals did not learn our lesson. Point one. Point two, despite our difficulties and the mistakes we made, we continued to govern. I mean Julia Gillard to her credit continued to get her agenda through the Parliament. She didnt throw her hands up and say its all too hard. She continued with the agenda.

KELLY: Scott Morison may have the same, are you going to give him a chance to demonstrate the same?

BOWEN: What his corporate tax policy? Whats the energy policy?

KELLY: Well hes only been Prime Minister for three days.

BOWEN: Well theyve been in office for five years Fran. I mean you cant just say Oh, were the new guys. Hes been in the Cabinet since day one, hes been the Treasurer

KELLY: Well the same went for Julia Gillard.

BOWEN: As I said, she continued to govern, she continued to get the agenda through in a minority government. These guys actually technically have a majority but it has all proven too hard for them.

KELLY: Chris Bowen thank you very much for joining us.

BOWEN: Always nice to talk to you Fran