SUBJECTS: ALP Federal Election Review, rural and regional health, GP shortages, PBS, climate and health.

FIONA PARKER, HOST: Chris Bowen, welcome to Bendigo.

CHRIS BOWEN, SHADOW MINISTER FOR HEALTH: Good morning Fiona. Good to be back.

PARKER: One of the least popular policies which cut through unfortunately for Labor was the franking credits one. At the time you were Labor's finance spokesperson and talked the policy up. Can you tell us what's wrong with it now?

BOWEN: Well we have the review out tomorrow so not long to go and I think we should all wait and see what's in that review. I'm sure it's a very thorough piece of analysis. What's very clear is that we lost support in areas which had traditionally been Labor supporters and we actually had swings to us in areas where perhaps we hadn't done so well in the past. I think it's more complicated than one particular element. You know I'll have more to say I'm giving a speech tomorrow night in Sydney the first annual Keating lecture, well have more to say about some of these matters but Ill also be looking forward to the future and how Labor has to prepare for the chance to take Government in two years time and to maximise those chances of being a good government

PARKER: Sure, part of that preparation is reflecting on what went wrong last time and surely you've had time to reflect specifically on the franking credits. Is the policy to abolish cash refunds for franking credits going to be entirely dumped now?

BOWEN: All our policies have been under review . And as you'd expect we're going to face the 2022 election or the 2021 election not the 2019 election. You'd never go to the next election with exactly the same policy you took the last one.

PARKER: So is the franking credits dropped?

BOWEN: Well that's a matter for us to work through collectively as a Shadow Cabinet.
PARKER: Is it likely to be dropped? Do you think it should be dropped given you were trying to sell it?
BOWEN: Fiona, that's a matter to be worked through by the Shadow Cabinet collectively and we will do so in relation to all our portfolios, all our policies and there'll be new policies no doubt that we take the election which we haven't taken to previous elections. I mean you respond to changing events and circumstances

PARKER: When Shadow Cabinet does discuss these things, are you going to be advocating for that policy to be dumped?

BOWEN: There'll be a process which we work through all the policies and the thing about Shadow Cabinet is, I say what I think in the Shadow Cabinet meeting with all due respect not in media interviews.
PARKER: It made you rather unpopular among self-funded retirees especially those with self managed superannuation funds. How do you go about gaining their support back?
BOWEN: Well again I mean I think these are complicated matters and I dont think it is as simplistic as you know one policy or one particular group. As I said if you look very closely at the swings to and from the Labor Party in different areas I think that indicates a more complex and nuanced issue. I think we struggled with traditional Labor Party voters, Labor Party supporters who you know - blue collar workers who don't have franking credits, who aren't retired. Obviously it was a big and controversial policy which was designed to pay for important initiatives in health and education which is why I'm in Bendigo today looking at the health issues as well which is my job and I intend to focus on.

PARKER: But you know you talk about other groups and other reasons for Labor losing the election. If you talked to that particular group, those who would have been affected by the franking credits or their family members who you know through no fault of their own would have had to have seen a family member lose or lose potential income through that money. What do you say to them? You know it was certainly unpopular among that particular group.
BOWEN: Well we took the policy to an election and we didn't win that election so all our policies regardless of what area they are in have to be reviewed. Now of course you do controversial things in politics and sometimes you have to have difficult conversations with people and we said, we thought we needed to invest more in health and education and tax cuts for low income earners and that the franking credit system was unsustainable. Now thats the policy we took the election, the last election.

PARKER: Is it still unsustainable?

BOWEN: Well we'll review all our policies and we'll do that in a very collective and cohesive work going forward and you know I've answered the question and that's the answer.

PARKER: What else can we expect from the report?

BOWEN: I don't know. We'll know tomorrow.

PARKER: You must know what it's been focusing on?

BOWEN: It's a matter for Jay Weatherill and Craig Emerson. The review, it will be out public tomorrow.

PARKER: You must know what they've been looking at?

BOWEN: Well I've been interviewed by them but they've interviewed hundreds of people.

PARKER: What about the election of leader, the ballot of the party membership in choosing a leader? We know ALP membership voted for Albanese. He received more support from the branches in that contest against Bill Shorten. But how much of a mistake then was it for the party ultimately choosing Bill Shorten?

BOWEN: Well Bill was elected through the processes. I mean there's a process and it's the first time the party members had a say and the party members had another say after this election. Now I again I think it's simplistic to say it's all one person, its all Bill Shorten. Now Bill has taken responsibility as leader for the defeat. That's the right thing that he did there. But I think it would be a big mistake just to say Oh well it was all down to Bill Shorten when the leadership is just one factor. Bill worked his guts out across the country. Nobody could have work harder than Bill to make himself a viable alternative.

PARKER: But in the beginning in choosing him as Leader, the party ultimately ignored the fact that Mr Albanese clearly had more support within the party membership?
BOWEN: Well the system is the party members get a vote and the caucus get a vote and then the winner is the person who has the most support overall. Bill Shorten won that process just as Anthony Albanese won the process

PARKER: That's a fact.

BOWEN: Correct.

PARKER: But those voting within the party ignored what those at the branches had.

BOWEN: But the system is just as it was in this system - this election just gone with the new leader was elected. Anthony ended up being unopposed but he had to face the caucus and the party members. Now the Labor Party members get a say in Labor Party unlike the Liberal Party, unlike the Greens. We are the only major mainstream party which gives the party members a say in the leadership. But there's a process to be worked through and that process which I you know was part of establishing is that the party members get 50 percent of the votes and the caucus gets the other 50 and you have to win both.

PARKER: Once this report is released tomorrow and Labor can finally start formulating policy, is it going to be a relief to finally be able to talk about policies again?
BOWEN: Well it would have been a relief Fiona to talk about health today which is why I am visiting Bendigo for example.

PARKER: Yes well get to that in a moment.

BOWEN: Im interested in the GP shortage in Bendigo. I am interested in the issues that Lisa Chesters has been raising. I mean people want the Labor Party looking forward to the future and providing an alternative to the Government. That's what I'm doing. That's what we're doing. We're out talking to people about the challenges facing the Australian people like the GP shortage facing the people of Bendigo which I think is what people would like me to focus on on my visit to Bendigo today.

PARKER: Highlighting the disparities of health outcomes as well between rural and regional areas and the cities. How is, or how should a Government attack that with new initiatives that haven't been tried yet? Because we've seen incentives to get doctors to move to regional areas. We've seen incentives to try and curb the obesity crisis which affects rural and regional areas more than city areas and other health outcomes like diabetes that sort of thing. How do you do that with measures that haven't been tried yet and failed?

BOWEN: I think you've got to have a very holistic approach and it is one of the big I think challenges of health policy is the rural/metropolitan divide. In extremes, at its worst, the life expectancy gap in Australia is 15 years between very remote Australia and metropolitan Australia. The closer you get to the city the longer you live. So it's less in remote, less in rural, less in in regional but there is still a disparity at every single step of the way closer into the CBD. Now there's a big focus on medical services and that's appropriate and that's one of the things that's what I'm focusing on today, GP and primary care in particular at Lisa Chesters instigation. She's been very active on this. I'm also visiting the hospital which I last visited just before it opened. I was very impressed and I want to see it in operation. I'm also going to La Trobe Medical School - Rural Health School I should say here because I've heard how good it is and I want to see it. That's part of the answer.

So we need to think about all those things and I've been focusing on that, on service provision, measures to get more GPs in rural Australia, get more doctors becoming GP too. That's a big problem. More and more doctors as they graduate move into specialties and that means a a smaller pool for rural Australia. But also you could fix that problem tomorrow I think. You could have GP equality between rural Australia and metro Australia, you'd still have a health outcome gap unless we're fixing things at their core and that is poverty, that is unemployment and that is housing. I mean these things lead to poor health outcomes as well. On mental health, we saw the Productivity Commission report out this week and it highlighted housing as one of the key drivers of mental health disparity. I thought that was a good thing. You have to look at this holistically and I've been focusing in my time in the Shadow Health portfolio on this as a key priority, the rural health divide.

PARKER: As Labor's health spokesperson as well you must be across the World Health Organization and other studies linking climate change to health outcomes: heatwaves, other extreme weather events, infectious disease. Do you recognise the link there and what should be done?

BOWEN: The World Health Organisation has pointed out that this has the capacity to undo 50 years of progress in health outcomes if we don't get it right. Of course the ultimate solution or the best - the best practice solution is a proper climate change policy. But in the meantime we also do need to recognise the health climate change connection, that climate change has an impact on health. Whether it's natural disasters, whether it's elongated drought, whether it is vector borne diseases, mosquito-spread diseases which are more common in hotter areas which would be a particular issue in parts of Australia. So yes this does need to be addressed. I've been looking at this and I'll have more to say in the not too distant future but I've been looking at it closely and I've been struck by the number of doctors who say this is one of the biggest challenges, health challenges facing the nation.

PARKER: What about the stories this morning that more than 11,000 scientists have endorsed a global climate emergency declaration. Now the Australian Parliament voted against declaring a climate emergency. How much of a missed opportunity was that?
BOWEN: Well I mean I think it was an important step which was missed but it was just one step. What we need is a proper climate change policy. This Government doesn't take climate change seriously. We've been on the record saying that we would of course. The exact policies would take the next election we will work up between now and then but very clearly I think there's a broad cross section. This is sometimes seen as an inner city issue but it's not. I mean I find here we are in Bendigo talking it. I find people talk to me about it right across the country, renewables and climate change and the importance of acting and we do need to act more than this Government has been acting.

PARKER: Some might say that we need to act more than the previous Labor Government acted as well.

BOWEN: Well we had a very proactive, we had a carbon price and this Government abolished it. I mean I don't think you could say that Fiona with respect. I mean we had a very strong carbon policy. I just don't think that assertion you just made with respect stands any scrutiny at all.

PARKER: What about in the lead up to it and all of the debate around it and becoming such a huge political issue that ultimately was one factor in killing the Labor Government?

BOWEN: You mean in 2013?

PARKER: Before Tony Abbott was elected on the back of that.

BOWEN: I think you've just argued against yourself. I think you've just argued that we lost support because we did have a proactive policy. You first argued that we didn't do enough and and you argued that we lost support because we did too much.
PARKER: I'm saying what some people might suggest.

BOWEN: Well I'm respectfully disagreeing with you.

PARKER: Okay so moving forward then will Labor bring back a carbon tax?

BOWEN: I doubt that that will be the policy. But you know we've been to the election with various iterations of policy and we will take a strong climate change policy to the next election.

PARKER: Chris Bowen is with us. He is the Shadow Health Minister visiting Bendigo as he has just explained some of the reasons for doing that today. There's also all of this talk about medicines missing from the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. How much of an issue do you think that contributes to more people's care for themselves and how much they're able to afford?

BOWEN: I think it's a big ongoing issue and this Government likes to congratulate itself and pat itself on the back for medicines listings. And I've been pursuing this very strongly through Senate Estimates. The Government claims theyve listed 2,200 medicines since they came to office. That's not true. They're listed 227 medicines since they came to office. The others have been sort of low or no cost changes in brands and slight modifications, they're not new listings of medicines and the PBS is one area of the health budget which is not growing. The health budget goes up and up but the PBS hasn't been going up, the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. So the Government has been kidding itself and playing spin with the listing of medicines.

Now I highlighted for example Symdeko which is a drug which took a long time to be listed and that's a drug which helps sufferers of cystic fibrosis, can add 20 years life to an individual suffering cystic fibrosis. I'm very glad it's now being listed but we had to apply a lot of pressure to that. Analysis of our system compared to around the world shows that we do wait longer for medicines to be listed in Australia in total. So there does need to be some focus on this and I have been holding the Minister, Greg Hunt to account for the difference between his spin and the reality and I think people understand the PBS was a great Labor achievement. It was the Chifley Government which brought it in a way back in the day against strong opposition from the Liberal Party back at the time. People understand that access to medicines is important and if you are unfortunate enough to be diagnosed with a very serious condition it can often mean massive costs. And unless theyre subsidised by the Government people just can't afford those costs. And so it's a pretty important policy area to get right and this Government hasn't been getting it right.

PARKER: And Chris Bowen before we let you go the Federal Cabinet is expected to meet today to sign off on a new drought stimulus package that's likely worth hundreds of millions of dollars. The Federal Government has been criticised for its approach to the drought. Surely however this announcement would indicate the Coalition's taking drought assistance seriously?

BOWEN: Well this is attempt number eight or nine. I mean we've had the drought envoy, the drought coordinator, the drought summit. Again they're pretty good at the spin but we've been holding them to account. And of course if this is a serious package we will welcome it but this is you know drought package you know 7.0. And every time they say Look we've got it right this time but if you look at the farmers doing it tough I mean there was a hashtag #WhereareyouScott? not long ago which was generated not by the Labor Party but by the farmers of Australia saying you're not taking it seriously. I mean we're suffering out here and the drought's going to you know we've had good rain across many parts of Australia but let's not kid ourselves the drought's over because it's not going to take a lot more than that. And I think Australia's farmers deserve more support than they've been getting from the Government.

PARKER: Thank you for joining us in the studio.

BOWEN: Great pleasure Fiona.

PARKER: Please enjoy your time in Bendigo.

BOWEN: Always do.