MINISTER FOR CLIMATE CHANGE AND ENERGY, CHRIS BOWEN
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
ABC 7:30
MONDAY, 31 MARCH 2025
SUBJECTS: Peter Dutton’s fake gas reservation; Peter Dutton’s promise to cut to pay for his risky $600 billion nuclear reactors.
SARAH FERGUSON, 7:30 HOST: Energy will be central to this campaign, with promises made and possibly broken about targets and costs, the Coalition is presenting new nuclear and gas policies while the government continues with its nation changing renewables transition. Chris Bowen is the Minister for Climate Change and Energy. Welcome to the new studio, Chris, your first time, I think?
MINISTER FOR CLIMATE CHANGE AND ENERGY, CHRIS BOWEN: Certainly is.
FERGUSON: Now you and the Prime Minister relied on modeling by Reputex before the last election to promise a $275 drop in power prices by 2025 and a further cut by 2030 have you now dumped that modeling?
MINISTER BOWEN: Well, we're fighting the 2025 election, not the 2022 election, and not the 2028 election. We're fighting this election with policies for this election. We did model the impact of our policies and released it very transparently, and that modeling showed that renewable energy is the cheapest form of energy, and if you get more in, you will see downward pressure on prices. But of course, since then, we've seen the impact of the previous government's hidden price rises today. It is actually the third anniversary of Angus Taylor changing the law.
FERGUSON: We’ve heard this one before.
MINISTER BOWEN: It's true today is the third anniversary of Angus Taylor changing the law to hide a 20% electricity price rise before the last election. And of course, we've been dealing with very difficult international circumstances. We've been very clear about that all the way through this.
FERGUSON: So does that mean that? The answer is, you have now dropped that model.
MINISTER BOWEN: It’s modeling done in 2021 we're now in 2025.
FERGUSON: It was something that you relied on to make multiple promises. We heard the Prime Minister today say it's Reputex modelling. So it's no longer modeling that you will be using?
MINISTER BOWEN: No because it's 2025, not 2021. That was modeling done in 2021 for a 2022 election. It was the modelled impact of our policies for the 2022 election. We're now going to the 2025 election. You don't go to every election with exactly the same policy.
FERGUSON: Do you have any new modeling that shows the path to a reduction in power bills?
MINISTER BOWEN: Well, what we're doing is following the pathway that's been set out by every credible expert, most particularly the ISP, the integrated systems plan, which is one of the most sophisticated energy plans in the world, which is written by AEMO.
FERGUSON: Just trying to stay away from acronyms, and help the audience.
MINISTER BOWEN: AEMO, the Australian Energy Market Operator, together with the Australian Energy Regulator, Australian Energy Market Corporation, pointed out that the best way for the most affordable and reliable energy systems, one, of course, is one which is very much lower emissions, is to stay the course with the renewable energy backed by storage, backed by transmission, and backed by gas peaking. That's the most efficient or least cost way to build the energy system the future, and that's what we're doing.
FERGUSON: Can you say with any confidence that electricity prices will be cheaper when your energy rebates run out at the end of this year?
MINISTER BOWEN: Well, the Australian Energy Market Corporation, Commission, sorry, has done the work, and this is their work I'm just referring to it. This is not an election policy that I'm talking about. But they've pointed out that energy prices will be lower if we stay the course with renewable energy transformation. Now the energy bill relief you’re referring to we've done three rounds of it. We've done that to help Australians through this difficult time with energy prices elevated right around the world, almost every government in the world has done something similar, intervened to assist households and small businesses in particular, through that period. And of course, yes, that's time limited and that's the way that governments around the world helping their households and small businesses deal with it, and we have as well.
FERGUSON: Now the opposition leader obviously wants to change course dramatically. He's announced a new policy, which is a form of gas reservation to bring more gas into the East Coast. We just had Laura talking about it to achieve a lower gas price. Can it work?
MINISTER BOWEN: Well, is clearly being done on the run, and it's falling apart with the most basic of screw and there are really three problems. I'll be very brief, but there are three big problems with this gas reservation, which is a reheated microwave Morrison policy. They've taken a Morrison policy and reheated it in the microwave. That's problem number one, the gas-fired recovery was announced by Angus Taylor in 2022, the day that he did that energy at gas prices were $4 a gigajoule by the time you got to the election it was $34.70. Well done Angus. That's the carbon copy of what they're doing today. It's exactly saying word for word. It didn't work, then it won't work now. Secondly, briefly, they say 100 petajoules is the answer. Well, we've introduced 640, 640, through our gas code of conduct. And thirdly, their nuclear modeling, which they have, you know, sung about, is based on very little gas use, a dramatic reduction in gas use. And now they're saying we're going to have much more gas. So either their policy today works or their nuclear modeling has fallen apart. They both can't be true.
FERGUSON: Could I just point out, I think, for the sake of the audience, that you claim you've added that amount of gas into the system, but the gas producers would have made that amount of gas available if you hadn't altered the system with your gas well price caps.
MINISTER BOWEN: Well with respect Sarah you don't know that. They have come to us and made those guarantees, those legally enforceable guarantees to us to introduce 640 petajoules more domestic supply, and that's the basis of the agreements and the exemptions we have issued to them, legally enforceably. So with respect you don't know that. What we do know is that they have now made a legally enforceable undertaking to us to guarantee that gas supply to the market 640 petajoules. That's 14 months worth of East Coast demand, enough for 11 and a half million households. And Peter Dutton says “Well, I can do 100”. Well done, Peter. We've done 640 in three years.
FERGUSON: Let me ask you this question. One thing that is absolutely clear and relatively simple is that the problem lies in supply. We need more supply. Are offshore gas terminals to enable gas to be brought to the southern states by ship is that part of your plan?
MINISTER BOWEN: I've seen some misinformation about this. Recently, the energy ministers, state and federal agreed to give AEMO more powers over the medium term to do what they can already do in the short term, which is deal with gas shortages. And that is that can include off take agreements from new infrastructure to get gas around the country. Now, one of the options that people talk about is a regasification terminal. One way of getting gas from Queensland or Western Australia across to the south eastern states is not a pipeline, but putting on the ships and bring it down. At the moment, we don't have the terminals to do that. Now, that is one of the options that I email could look at. There's been no decision made to do that. It would primarily be about moving gas around the country most efficiently - you can build pipelines, but that might not be the most efficient way. You can also do it by ship. That's what ministers have agreed. I've seen some people writing, you know, this means gas imports. It means regasification terminals to facilitate better transport of gas around.
FERGUSON: So you are open to it.
MINISTER BOWEN: It's one option that AEMO could look at. Ministers have agreed with me, all of us, unanimously, all the states and territories, and they have agreed to work to give AEMO those powers.
FERGUSON: One of Peter Dutton's Other major energy policies is to scrap the $20 billion worth of investment that the government is making in rewiring the nation that is providing the transmission lines to move renewable energy about the country. What would be the impact if that investment was cancelled? And I should point out he did say they would keep they would honor existing contracts.
MINISTER BOWEN: Let me make a couple of brief but important points. Sarah, firstly, new transmission is necessary regardless of how the energy is generated, whether it's coal, gas, nuclear or renewables. We haven't really invested in our transmission system. Over the last 40 years, there's been very little transmission added, and we're going to use a lot more electricity. So this needs to happen. It needs to be done as quickly and as efficiently as possible. That's what our Rewiring the Nation policy does. Makes the cost of capital lower so it can be done more quickly, and we've changed the rules so savings must be passed on to consumers, so it can be done more cheaply. Now Mr. Dutton should answer the question, which projects would he cancel? Would it be the Marinus Link, which connects Tasmania to the mainland and brings on more energy? Would it be the Hume Link which will connect Snowy 2.0, which the previous government, the Turnbull Government, funded Snowy 2.0, obviously not enough we've had to fix that. But they didn't fund the connection to plug it into the grid. We have now. Would he not do that? Would that mean we've spent $12 billion on Snowy 2.0 but you can't properly connect it to the grid? These are the sorts of implications of the of his policy. And clearly, Mr. Dutton and Mr. O'Brien, just simply haven't thought through.
FERGUSON: It’s going to be a long conversation, and we're going to keep it as simple as we can thank you for making a start on that Chris Bowen, thank you for joining us.
MINISTER BOWEN:. No doubt I will be back at least once before the election. Look forward to it.
FERGUSON: You certainly will.
