CHRIS BOWEN, SHADOW MINISTER FOR HEALTH: Well thanks for coming. More confirmation in Senate Estimates that the Morrison Government is loose with the truth when it comes to the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Greg Hunt likes to pat himself on the back every Sunday and he has said that he and the Government had listed 2,200 medicines on the PBS.

Well what's the truth?

Under questioning from the Labor Party last night the Department confirmed that in fact only 227 new medicines have been listed on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme on this Government's watch.

1,354 listings were at no cost to Government. So every time Scott Morrison and Greg Hunt say we can only list this medicine because of the strong Budget the truth is the listings were made at zero impact on the Budget and 316 listings have actually just been price changes for normal business of Government.

Greg Hunt says he's listed 2,200 medicines in fact 227, around 10 per cent of what he claimed. 10 per cent of what he said. 10 per cent of what Scott Morrison boasts about.

Now the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme is a proud Labor creation. A Labor Government invented it, a Liberal Party opposed it. Now Greg Hunt and Scott Morrison in the absence of any agenda for the country, in the absence of any health policy, in the absence of any economic plan. All they've got is spin about medicines in the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme. Well if Greg Hunt wants to claim credit for listings he'll also be held to account for non listings. Yesterday we got and released a list of 80 medicines unlisted under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme that have been recommended by the PBAC.

As I said yesterday I fully accept that there can be a range of reasons why drugs aren't listed. But the fact is 80 unlisted that have been recommended by the Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee and only 227 new medicines listed over the time. So if they want to have a debate about the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme I'm up for it. If they want to have a debate about health policy; bring it on. Out-of-pocket costs never been higher than under the Morrison Government. Waiting lists have never been longer than under the Morrison Government and they are all spin and loose with the truth when it comes to the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.

Happy to take any questions.

JOURNALIST: So the 81 drugs you mention, you say there are some reasons not to list some. Do you have examples of some that definitely should have been listed?

BOWEN: Well look the Government has the details of every single negotiation and discussion, not the Opposition and not the media. There'll be times when the Pharmaceutical Benefits Advisory Committee makes a recommendation and for whatever reasons negotiations break down. Everybody understands that. But Greg Hunt says and has said he would list everything recommended. I am holding him to his own standards. He has claimed that they always follow PBAC advice. Now as I said I fully understand and accept that from time to time negotiations will break down. But the fact is 80 recommendations not acted upon over the life of this Government. Case closed. Facts are clear.

JOURNALIST: You obviously still need to get value for money for the taxpayer. As you sift through the information you have you can't say these ones definitely should have been?

BOWEN: As I said I wasn't party to the negotiations. The Government was. Now there'll be times when the drug companies say the Government was unreasonable in those negotiations. I'm not here to adjudicate on that. I don't have the information. I didn't sit in on the meetings. Neither did you. Neither of us could adjudicate on that. But Greg Hunt has said he had listed every drug recommended. He claimed he would. The fact of the matter is only 227 new drugs listed, 80 drugs sitting unlisted. Theyre the facts.

JOURNALIST: Are you concerned that the whole PBS and MBS system is becoming politicised. The idea was that we had an independent advisory committee to take this outside politics.

BOWEN: Correct Sue. That's right. But this Government, this Minister in particular you know engages in a Sunday orgy of self-congratulations with every listing and has politicised it themselves. They are the ones who have tried to make a political battering ram out of the PBS. Well if they want to politicise the PBS and make it part of a political debate I will counter with the facts.

JOURNALIST: One of the facts is that when you were last in Government you delayed the listing of a number of medicines because you couldn't afford them.

BOWEN: Well this is the allegation of the Government. Every one of those listings was made. Every listing was acted upon. Every drug that was recommended that was referred, that's referred to by Minister Hunt was listed during the life of the Labor Government

JOURNALIST: Isn't it true that some of them were delayed because you needed to bolster?

BOWEN: Well as I said every listing was made and the Labor Party went to the last election with a commitment that every listing, every recommendation will be acted upon. Thats the correct commitment. Now it was the Liberal Party and Mr Hunt who sought to politicise what has been a longstanding and since the Liberal Party originally opposed the PBS, they came around and supported the PBS, I acknowledge that, longstanding bipartisanship that the PBAC process is the correct one.

It would be illegal for the Minister to list any drug not recommended by the PBAC. I've never called on him to do that. That's the system. If they want to politicise the PBS they have succeeded in doing so but they'll be held to account for their commitments and the standard which they set. I mean these are these are really important issues. There are people relying on these drugs. I mean I've met with the victims of cystic fibrosis who waited seven months for the listing. If Greg Hunts going to congratulate himself he'll also be held to account. As Nettie Burke said Seven months of delay, seven months of lung congestion that these people have suffered as a result of those delays. So yes there's a debate about the PBS. There are two sides to that debate and I intend to put the Labor Party's point of view that the Government is all spin and is loose with the truth.

JOURNALIST: Just on your point about the Minister making these announcements every Sunday. Are you saying that if you become the Health Minister that you wont make announcements about?

BOWEN: It will be my intention to handle announcements about the PBS in the traditional way as a normal matter of Government.

JOURNALIST: So the status of old policies announced at the last election, I thought a lot of them were lapsed, this is Labor policies, lapsed or up for review. Are you saying your commitment that every recommended drug be listed is extant, its alive?

BOWEN: Well look Greg, as has been well traversed, the Labor Party took a very comprehensive set of policies to the election. We don't take the same policies necessarily automatically for the next election. There is a review process. What I'm saying is that the commitment that the Labor Party took to list every drug would be an important one for me as well going forward.

JOURNALIST: I just wanted to ask about vaping, there are up to 33 deaths in the US, theyre not really sure how theyre happening. In Australia you can get access to nicotine vaping liquid by prescription, so via the Government. Should that be reviewed?

BOWEN: There was a Parliamentary Inquiry into vaping last year I think I'm correct in saying. I support the recommendations of that inquiry. I know there's moves in the Liberal Party to a more permissive approach. That's not the approach I support. I think the Minister and I, to be fair would be at one on this. There are some in the Liberal Party pushing for more permissive access to vaping. The Minister doesn't support that and neither do I.

JOURNALIST: But this is going the other way. Weve had deaths since then. People cant explain why they're happening that it might have to do with vaping and getting in the lungs and -

BOWEN: Deeply concerning what's happening of course in the United States. I think that's to be fair Tom to give a general answer, that's reason to be cautious in vaping. I think it should be based on the best advice, the best medical advice available to the Government and I have no reason to disagree with the findings of the Parliamentary Inquiry last year.

JOURNALIST: But is it reason to review now what happens now where doctors can give out a prescription to providing nicotine vaping?

BOWEN: I would expect and I would have trust that the Government would only act on the very best medical advice. I mean I dont think it's a matter best traversed through the media and you know in a political way. If the Government has medical evidence I'm sure they would act upon it.

JOURNALIST: Just back to the PBS listing. You said that they should be announced in the normal way. Does that mean just putting them up on the Department website?

BOWEN: Yeah well my approach would be the same approach as previous Ministers which would be of course they need to be announced but it's not a political issue. Theyd be announced in the normal way. Not as political, the normal way is a press release during the week. That's that would be my approach.

JOURNALIST: So timeliness of PBS listings is also an issue. A report prepared by Medicines Australia found that it was taking up to two years and sometimes longer to get lifesaving cancer medicines listed. Would you in Government do something to speed up the process?

BOWEN: Well Sue as I understand the evidence in Australia in relation to international best practice; we're quite quick with the first part of the process. Getting to TGA approval is by international standards quite quick. That's good. A relatively quick getting to the PBAC process. Then delay comes post-PBAC in between recommendation and then action by the Government. That's where the delay comes in. That's where we're not as good as the rest of the world. That's why Australians were waiting too long and that would be a focus for the Government, a Labor Government, should be a focus for this Government instead of patting themselves on the back to get that process done more quickly.

Again, I fully accept that sometimes there'll be difficulties. There'll be negotiations with drug companies that will be robust. As they should be. The taxpayer should be getting value for money. But it should be a focus of Government where you have got a PBAC recommendation, and as I said our international results are quite quick until that point. By international standards we do well as a country to that point and then we become too slow compared to international best practise. That's what the Government should be fixing.

JOURNALIST: The Government has an agreement with the Medicines Industry to speed that up. Have they met that?

BOWEN: Well we haven't seen any evidence of that happening yet.

Okay. Expecting a vote in the House so I better go and do my democratic duty. Thanks very much.